I wasn't quite sure where to put this. Either here or the debate forum. It's a moral/ethical issue.

http://ashleytreatment.spaces.live.com/

This is a story about a little girl, whose parents made the decision to have her growth stunted in order to be able to take care of her for the rest of her life. They also chose to have her uterus and breast buds removed. So the little girl wouldn't have to endure menstral cramps, and everything else associated with periods. They had the breast buds removed, for her comfort. Read the story, it goes in depth on the reason why they chose the Ashley Treatment.
As a parent, and working with the disabled and elderly, I agree with the decision that they made. Be-it a difficult one because of society. If anything happened to my daughter, and I could make her life easier and still be able to take care of her myself- I would do anything in my power to give her the best life I possibly could. Anyhow. it was an interesting read.

I'm only about halfway through it. You're right that it is an interesting read; I've never personally heard of this before. But I also agree that they're doing the best for their child.

I'm only about halfway through it. You're right that it is an interesting read; I've never personally heard of this before. But I also agree that they're doing the best for their child.


I saw this on cnn today. I think she's the only one thus far to have it done. Everything that has been done, has been deemed safe with no side effects. I think it would keep her quality of life at a better level than what it would, would she have been allowed to grow to be a grown adult.

Yeah, I completely agree... the more and more I'm reading of it and the procedures done it all makes so much sense. They improved the quality of her life immensely by doing this.

Hmmm, I am honestly not sure how I feel about this. I can see why the parents did it, but at the same time, something about it doesn't feel right. I understand they supposedly had their daughter's best interests in mind, but I somehow feel like they have mutilated her. I also feel like perhaps they have given up hope that in the future, medicine might be able to heal her.

I think this is a heartwrenching decision only those in this situation have to make for themselves. I don't know if I would do this, only because I would want to keep the hope that something would come along and unlock my daughter's mind one day.

PS - It was an article on CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/conditions/01/04/ashley.treatment.ap/index.html) today.

I can sort of understand why they did it, but I find it sickening that they removed the very part of this little girl that would make her a woman one day.
What about the girl wants? Even if I could not comunicate with my parents, I wouldn't want my uterus removed without my permission.

I also wonder, will this be better for the little girl, or the parents? It'll be easier for them to carry her around if she stays small all her life. That's convienient for them, not for her. I wonder who'll be getting the raw deal down the track.

Whatever the case, I hope it works out for them.

I can sort of understand why they did it, but I find it sickening that they removed the very part of this little girl that would make her a woman one day.
What about the girl wants? Even if I could not comunicate with my parents, I wouldn't want my uterus removed without my permission.

I also wonder, will this be better for the little girl, or the parents? It'll be easier for them to carry her around if she stays small all her life. That's convienient for them, not for her. I wonder who'll be getting the raw deal down the track.

Whatever the case, I hope it works out for them.
In removing the part of her body that would "make her a woman someday", they're sparing her needless pain and confusion involved in a process that to someone like her, is pointless. Ashley will never have children, therefore she does not need to menstruate, nor do her parents need the added concerns of fibroids and other such related issues. The "little girl" functions with the mental capacity of an infant aged several months. She does not have the ability to comprehend what she "lost".
Princess Mary, it is a much more agreeable situation for Ashley's growth to be stunted as it is, because it allows her body to assimilate a more appropriate state to that of her mind. Have you seen developmentally disabled (and I'm not talking Down's. I'm talking 'Pillow Angels' such as Ashley. Think Terri Schiavo.) adult-sized people, and how difficult/boring their lives are? I have. How much of a struggle it is to bathe, dress, and otherwise attend to them? It is much easier, and far less stressful on the person in question to have them be of a smaller stature than that of a full-grown adult. By staying diminutive, Ashley is being prevented from lifetime confinement to a bed, and the unnecessary mental anguish brought on by such simple things (to us) as bathing or dressing, which become far more difficult when you add on a hundred pounds and a foot in height.

Ashley will never have children, therefore she does not need to menstruate

Okay, but what about grown women who are infertile? Ashley doesn't need to menstuate or need a uterus because she'll never have kids, should infertile women have their uterus's removed because it's pointless there being there?:confused:

Princess Mary, it is a much more agreeable situation for Ashley's growth to be stunted as it is, because it allows her body to assimilate a more appropriate state to that of her mind. Have you seen developmentally disabled (and I'm not talking Down's. I'm talking 'Pillow Angels' such as Ashley. Think Terri Schiavo.) adult-sized people, and how difficult/boring their lives are? I have. How much of a struggle it is to bathe, dress, and otherwise attend to them? It is much easier, and far less stressful on the person in question to have them be of a smaller stature than that of a full-grown adult. By staying diminutive, Ashley is being prevented from lifetime confinement to a bed, and the unnecessary mental anguish brought on by such simple things (to us) as bathing or dressing, which become far more difficult when you add on a hundred pounds and a foot in height.

I understand where you are coming from, I really do. Of course if she stays small, it will be easier to look after her. Ashley will grow old, I hope her parents don't think she'll not only stay as small as a child her whole life, that she'll look like one too, because she won't. She'll grow old, maybe not on the outside, but on the inside. She'll have problems associated with old age, wouldn't she? Bladder problems and the like. Will her parents remove her bladder and other parts that will/may cause problems for her?

Or is this treatment going to keep her young forever, in the sense that the outside and inside of her body will never grow old?:confused:

Okay, but what about grown women who are infertile? Ashley doesn't need to menstuate or need a uterus because she'll never have kids, should infertile women have their uterus's removed because it's pointless there being there?
That's not what I mean. Ashley doesn't need the hassle of it because she cannot handle it. She has the mentality of a three-month old infant, can you imagine dealing with a period at that age?

No, the treatment will not keep her young forever. It's not Tuck Everlasting's spring. It will keep her small. She'll continue to age facially and bodily, she just is done growing.

Okay, but what about grown women who are infertile? Ashley doesn't need to menstuate or need a uterus because she'll never have kids, should infertile women have their uterus's removed because it's pointless there being there?:confused:



I understand where you are coming from, I really do. Of course if she stays small, it will be easier to look after her. Ashley will grow old, I hope her parents don't think she'll not only stay as small as a child her whole life, that she'll look like one too, because she won't. She'll grow old, maybe not on the outside, but on the inside. She'll have problems associated with old age, wouldn't she? Bladder problems and the like. Will her parents remove her bladder and other parts that will/may cause problems for her?

Or is this treatment going to keep her young forever, in the sense that the outside and inside of her body will never grow old?:confused:

Okay, would you want your infant to be caused senseless pain from period cramps? Or have them raped, because they cannot fend off sexual advances, and have the possibility of becoming pregnant.
What these people want to do is be able to care for their child for as long as they possibly can. A dedicated parent can take far better care of their child one on one than they can if the child is put into a nursing home or institution. Since she will more than likely stay the size of a normal 9 year old for the rest of her life, that will help guarantee that she won't have to be put into an institution or nursing home. She will be small enough to be bathed, and incorporated into daily and family activities. If she were to grow to the size of a normal adult. She would have a greater risk of skin break down because as it is, she cannot move around in the bed herself. she has to be assisted. The more weight and size you add to a person who is immobile, the better the chance of getting bed sores and infections. I work in a nursing home, and I know how hard it is to take care of a full sized person. It is difficuilt. And I cannot devote my time to one person, I have to split my time between 20 different people. That means, in the morning I spend about 5-10 minutes with each resident. This doesn't give them quality time. But since the parents want to be the sole caregivers, She will get more one on one time, ALL the time. which is important to a person in her state.
You also mention about removing her bladder if she becomes incontinent. You have to remember she has the mentality of a 3 month old. Shs is not potty trained. Nor will she ever be. Her risk of Urinary Tract Infections will double if she is put into an institution/nursing home. She won't get changed as often as she should. She will not get cleaned as well as she should. And there is a chance of cross contamination from other patients in the facility. These are downfalls if she were to grow to a size that would be too much for her parents and grandparents to handle.
So yeah, they are taking away her rights. But it's in her best interest.
It goes hand in hand. Does a boy have the right to get circumcized when he's a newborn? No. The parents either do it for religion, it being the "thing to do", or for hygeine.

Part of the things they have done I can understand, like removing the uterus so she won't have to go through having a period. But I think removing her breast buds because they are afraid she MIGHT have large breasts was uncalled for. I think it just caused her unneeded pain. And as for the growth stopping...well, part of me thinks they just want to have a little girl for ever. Like they don't WANT her to grow up. When I heard that part I just thought it was weird.

I think the bottom line with this is they are dealing with something none of us really can fathom. If it were my child I would want to go to every length possible to keep her free from pain but the breast removal itself had to be horrendous as well as a hysterectomy. None of that would be an easy recovery for a child. In the long term, and considering the fact she will have no memories of her operations that we are aware of it was definitely in the best interest of Ashley to have these procedures done. The growth stunting as well will keep her small enough to remain comfortable in the positions she always lies in. I personally see nothing wrong with what they've done.

Such a sad, sad story.I've come across quite a few stories about these children referred to as pillow angels. These are parents with amazing strength and faith. Ashley's parents are really a true testament to that.

I can sort of understand why they did it, but I find it sickening that they removed the very part of this little girl that would make her a woman one day.
What about the girl wants? Even if I could not comunicate with my parents, I wouldn't want my uterus removed without my permission.

I also wonder, will this be better for the little girl, or the parents? It'll be easier for them to carry her around if she stays small all her life. That's convienient for them, not for her. I wonder who'll be getting the raw deal down the track.

Whatever the case, I hope it works out for them.

The odds are that she is not going to be healed in the next 50 years or so, and unfortunately odds are all we have to go by. last year my 9 month old brother died of complications from a bone marrow transplant. he would maybe have lived 16 to 20 years with the immune deficiency disease Wiscott-Ulrich, but maybe less. There was about 1 in 5 chance of him dieing from the treatment and he was unlucky. Those were pretty good odds, and if successful he would have lived a completely normal life. these are the choices parents have to make, I would never judge someone who has to make a life altering decision for there child. My dad and step-mum now have to live with the thought in there minds that maybe they should have not done it, and let him have 15 or 20 years. As would these parents question there decision if a cure is found down the track for there child. They made a hard choice, with the intention of improving the quality of life for there daughter, I don't think anybody has the right to judge until it happens to them.

Part of the things they have done I can understand, like removing the uterus so she won't have to go through having a period. But I think removing her breast buds because they are afraid she MIGHT have large breasts was uncalled for. I think it just caused her unneeded pain. And as for the growth stopping...well, part of me thinks they just want to have a little girl for ever. Like they don't WANT her to grow up. When I heard that part I just thought it was weird.
I find it weird that I saw this here, just 3 days ago the Ashley Treatment was talked about on Nancy Grace. I agree with what they did because it will get hard to take care of her if she got too big and her getting her period would be such a pain in the bum to take care of. But I agree with you Lauren, I do think they want to keep her as a little girl forever. After all they call her a "pillow angel" I dunno, that just struck me as odd...

Part of the things they have done I can understand, like removing the uterus so she won't have to go through having a period. But I think removing her breast buds because they are afraid she MIGHT have large breasts was uncalled for. I think it just caused her unneeded pain. And as for the growth stopping...well, part of me thinks they just want to have a little girl for ever. Like they don't WANT her to grow up. When I heard that part I just thought it was weird.
I'm kind of "eh" at the breast bud removal as well. I mean, don't breasts need those specific hormones to enlarge and develop? And since they removed the uterus, well, there's no organ left to produce the estrogen. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here. That just seemed weird to me. :/

I'm kind of "eh" at the breast bud removal as well. I mean, don't breasts need those specific hormones to enlarge and develop? And since they removed the uterus, well, there's no organ left to produce the estrogen. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here. That just seemed weird to me. :/
The ovaries produce estrogen, not the uterus. She still has those.

Oh, right. I forgot they left her ovaries. Ok, I rest my point then. I'm not really sure about my views on this, I just hope it really is better for Ashley in the long run.

I don't know why on earth she'd need boobs. Who cares? I don't think Ashley would want them, and the only thing she really comprehends is comfort and discomfort. The parents had her best interests at heart and they did consult doctors on the matter who suggested this route.

I feel like if anyone disagrees with their decisions it's because they don't understand. They probably don't understand the parents' predicament and Ashley's situation, and they don't understand that the concept of "being a woman" doesn't apply to Ashley in the way that so many people are used to. It's just hard to accept because it's so drastic and so different and it's never been done... but if you think about it... they did everything right.

I thought of something a few days ago. This girl might stay the size of a child, but she will still age. Her facial features will surely change as the years go by, she will look like an old woman trapped in a childs body.

What of the problems incured by aging? Bladder problems, for instances. What if she becomes incontinent donw the track, as a lot of oldies do? Will her parents/carers removed her bladder to prevent 'unnecessary pain'?

Her uterus and breats bibs have been removed because they may cause her 'pain' in her youth, but what about her older years? Will her parents remove every part of her body that may cause her pain or discomfort?

Again you bring up the incontinence. She's already incontinent. Stop trying to make a point with something that makes no sense and has already been proven wrong.
Princess Mary, if you're not going to stop for a moment and actually read the information, then don't even bother. They removed her uterus for more than the reasons of pain; can you imagine how traumatizing the blood alone would be for someone of Ashley's mental capacity?

Removing her breast buds was done for her comfort. If you've never had large breasts, then you don't really know how uncomfortable they are. Having the buds removed, she will not have to wear a bra that will be uncomfortable. She will also be comfortable without wearing a bra. Also, if she had large breasts, securing her into her stander, wheelchair or bath chair would be very uncomfortable and difficult for her. Because of her state, if she would have large breasts, she would eventually get sores and rashes under them. I work in a nursing home. I have seen what can happen to people with large breasts that are bed ridden. It is not comfortable. They can get red, irritated and sore. Wearing a bra only adds to the discomfort. and not wearing one doesn't help either.

I just heard about this last night on MSNBC or CNN or one of the news channels. I do think that the parents were thinking of BOTH their daughter's comfort (both now and in the future) and their own comfort, in having to take care of her, lift her, strap her into her apparatus, etc. --none of which I think is really ethically wrong. I'm glad that the situation was brought to a board of medical ethicists before it was done. If they thought it was okay, I'm inclined to agree with them.

However my only problem with what they did is the assumption that everyone seems to have that she will never live a normal life. I am also 99% sure that she won't live a normal life but what if she can? They said that even with this brain abnormality she still has a "normal life expectancy". So what if one day like 30 years from now, there is an incredible medical breakthrough or something? Every time I bring this up whoever I'm talking to says "she'll be like that forever." But how do any of us really KNOW?

Even if by some medical miracle her brain damaged were cured how would anything that has been done interfere with her life? With the sole exception of never being able to bear children nothing that has been done would preclude her from leading a normal life. Sure she will be shorter than the average woman, lots of women are. She wont have natural adult female breasts, neither does anyone who has gotten implants. She wont menstruate, neither does any woman who has undergone menopause or had a hysterectomy.

Even if in 30 years there is a miracle cure for her brain damage, she'll be a 39 year old with the mind of a 3 month old, she'd still have the equivalent 18 years of emotional development and learning to undergo to become a "normal" adult. Assuming that there no set backs due to learning disabilities that'd put her as functioning normally at about age 57, well outside the age for a normal mother.

I'm not sure I could ever make the decision to do what the parents have done, but I know I could never begrudge them for making that decision. I can't even fathom what it would be like to be in their position, let alone ponder the decisions they have to make.

Diamon and Rory have pwn3d j00!!